Loudspeaker Technology

8351 - overload protection and digital level

Threads [ Previous | Next ]
Toggle
Hey together,

yesterday i set up my 8351 for the first time using the digital connection. 

I was so dumb to think, that the "monitor" volume of my antelope converter also influences its digitally output. i does not. 

on my 8351 all dip switches were in the off position. monitor volume level control at the backside of the monitor was set up to no attenuation.

there was just one speaker connected for this first test. i just wanted to see, if the cabling is ok.

to sum it up: one of my 8351 got an full scale song blown around his head. 100 % level in windows audio, and 100 % level in windows media player, and no attenuation on the speaker. i was shocked by the loud volume. after realising what is happening i tried to get my hands as fast as i can on the backside of the 8351 to switch the power off. but i guess it took over ten seconds to realise what to do.

My first question is:

Do i have to be afraid that i have damaged / hurt my speaker a lot? Or can i be sure that the Overload Protection has done its job?

 

I can control the digital volume on my converter. to be exact i would be able to route it in the software / routing matrix of the converter and attenuate it there.

i think i read here in the forum that it would be better to control the volume either manually at the speakers with dip switches and the volume knob on the backside or by using the glm software.

Is it correct that it is better to control the digital signal with glm or with dip switches and volume controller at the monitor than using the converter software? If so, why?

With no attenuation of the digital signal i have a lot of vey loud hiss in the speakers - but at the same time i can barely increase the volume in windows without bringing the light at the speakers to red flashing.  Which settings at the monitor are recommended with digital signal? -10, -12, -20 or any combination. I guess i get this loud hiss of the speakers just because the signal is way to hot if it arrives at the speakers without attenuation. i believe the spdif out of my converter sends full scale 0 db. the manual does not tell that there is an attenution of the spdif out signal so i guess it is 0db out at the converter.

 

 

Thanks

Matthew

 

 


RE: 8351 - overload protection and digital level
Answer
7/9/18 11:05 AM as a reply to matthew.
matthew:
Hey together,

yesterday i set up my 8351 for the first time using the digital connection. 

I was so dumb to think, that the "monitor" volume of my antelope converter also influences its digitally output. i does not. 

on my 8351 all dip switches were in the off position. monitor volume level control at the backside of the monitor was set up to no attenuation.

there was just one speaker connected for this first test. i just wanted to see, if the cabling is ok.

to sum it up: one of my 8351 got an full scale song blown around his head. 100 % level in windows audio, and 100 % level in windows media player, and no attenuation on the speaker. i was shocked by the loud volume. after realising what is happening i tried to get my hands as fast as i can on the backside of the 8351 to switch the power off. but i guess it took over ten seconds to realise what to do.

My first question is:

Do i have to be afraid that i have damaged / hurt my speaker a lot? Or can i be sure that the Overload Protection has done its job?

 

I can control the digital volume on my converter. to be exact i would be able to route it in the software / routing matrix of the converter and attenuate it there.

i think i read here in the forum that it would be better to control the volume either manually at the speakers with dip switches and the volume knob on the backside or by using the glm software.

Is it correct that it is better to control the digital signal with glm or with dip switches and volume controller at the monitor than using the converter software? If so, why?

With no attenuation of the digital signal i have a lot of vey loud hiss in the speakers - but at the same time i can barely increase the volume in windows without bringing the light at the speakers to red flashing.  Which settings at the monitor are recommended with digital signal? -10, -12, -20 or any combination. I guess i get this loud hiss of the speakers just because the signal is way to hot if it arrives at the speakers without attenuation. i believe the spdif out of my converter sends full scale 0 db. the manual does not tell that there is an attenution of the spdif out signal so i guess it is 0db out at the converter.

 

 

Thanks

Matthew

 

 

Hi Matthew,

 

if your speakers work (that means that all the drivers provide normal output - 3 in case of 8351) then you should not worry, because that is exactly why the overload protection exists - to prevent damage in such cases. So I believe everything should be ok with your speakers.

 

Yes, 8351 have some self noise, but it shold not be a problem. I suggest you to control the volume via GLM and get some Griffin Powermate, which does the job outstandingly. But even if you controlled your volume from the Antelope software it should not make any real world difference.

 


RE: 8351 - overload protection and digital level
Answer
7/9/18 11:21 AM as a reply to jantex.

Hi Jantex,

cool that you reply to my thread here. Your comments about the 8351 at gearslutz pointed me in the direction of the genelecs. You also wrote at GS that the digital input is better than the analog. if i recall it correctly you use an apollo 8p in your setup.

how are you controlling the volume? did you attenuate anything using glm or using dip switches at the monitor? I wrote that i assume 0db full scale signal from my antelope converter. Is it correct that spdif outs usually deliver 0 db full scale in converters?

You tested a lot of speakers. I read that at GS. It is funny cause the Genelecs were first not on my list for speakers to try out. I was first looking at speakers from Neumann, Focal for example. After a little gearslutz search about the topic i found your posts about all the speakers you tried and read the good words you had for the genelecs. I tried side by side Neumann KH 310, Focal SM9 and the 8351 at a local dealer. There was no comparision. The genelecs performed so much better. i was shocked how big the difference was. 

thanks a lot for your answer.

 

Matthew


RE: 8351 - overload protection and digital level
Answer
7/9/18 12:09 PM as a reply to matthew.
matthew:

Hi Jantex,

cool that you reply to my thread here. Your comments about the 8351 at gearslutz pointed me in the direction of the genelecs. You also wrote at GS that the digital input is better than the analog. if i recall it correctly you use an apollo 8p in your setup.

how are you controlling the volume? did you attenuate anything using glm or using dip switches at the monitor? I wrote that i assume 0db full scale signal from my antelope converter. Is it correct that spdif outs usually deliver 0 db full scale in converters?

You tested a lot of speakers. I read that at GS. It is funny cause the Genelecs were first not on my list for speakers to try out. I was first looking at speakers from Neumann, Focal for example. After a little gearslutz search about the topic i found your posts about all the speakers you tried and read the good words you had for the genelecs. I tried side by side Neumann KH 310, Focal SM9 and the 8351 at a local dealer. There was no comparision. The genelecs performed so much better. i was shocked how big the difference was. 

thanks a lot for your answer.

 

Matthew

Hi Matthwe,

You definitely chose the right speakers. They are the best purchase in my whole audio career and really are so much better from the competition. Engineering at its finest if I can say. I used Apollo 8P via Hosa SPDIF to AES adapter. Now I am using ADI-2 Pro connected via SPDIF to Apollo 8P, and AES out from ADI-2 Pro now feeds the Genelecs. I use exactly the thing I suggested you - that is Griffin Powermate to control Genelecs GLM volume. It performs flawlessly.

Best, Tine


 


RE: 8351 - overload protection and digital level
Answer
7/9/18 2:13 PM as a reply to jantex.

 

 

jantex:
matthew:

Hi Jantex,

cool that you reply to my thread here. Your comments about the 8351 at gearslutz pointed me in the direction of the genelecs. You also wrote at GS that the digital input is better than the analog. if i recall it correctly you use an apollo 8p in your setup.

how are you controlling the volume? did you attenuate anything using glm or using dip switches at the monitor? I wrote that i assume 0db full scale signal from my antelope converter. Is it correct that spdif outs usually deliver 0 db full scale in converters?

You tested a lot of speakers. I read that at GS. It is funny cause the Genelecs were first not on my list for speakers to try out. I was first looking at speakers from Neumann, Focal for example. After a little gearslutz search about the topic i found your posts about all the speakers you tried and read the good words you had for the genelecs. I tried side by side Neumann KH 310, Focal SM9 and the 8351 at a local dealer. There was no comparision. The genelecs performed so much better. i was shocked how big the difference was. 

thanks a lot for your answer.

 

Matthew

Hi Matthwe,

You definitely chose the right speakers. They are the best purchase in my whole audio career and really are so much better from the competition. Engineering at its finest if I can say. I used Apollo 8P via Hosa SPDIF to AES adapter. Now I am using ADI-2 Pro connected via SPDIF to Apollo 8P, and AES out from ADI-2 Pro now feeds the Genelecs. I use exactly the thing I suggested you - that is Griffin Powermate to control Genelecs GLM volume. It performs flawlessly.

Best, Tine


 


Thanks again for your response. Cool that you say this so clear now.  Did you have the chance to compare them with the 8350 in the meantime? Your other thread here makes me feel a bit worried about my purchase. i mean your 8351 vs 8350 thread. i would still have the chance to send my 8351 back and get full money. i had the 8351 from a store here for testing the last 30 days. They were used ones that the store sends out for testing. i purchased them after this test period from another store - cause they offered them to me by a much much better price - i also had a lot of other stuff on my shopping list so it was a desicion not just on the price for the speakers. 

Is there a special reason that you included the adi 2 pro in your setup? the antelope also just has spdif out. no aes. i was in contact with genelec support and it was said, that even a connection using a neutrik impedance transformer would be just fine. there would be no need for a digital signal converter. In my research i found digital audio converters like the hosa you mention or a unit from Mutec. But genelec support said, that this would not be needed. What is your opinion? You seem to use a pretty solid unit just for this now?


greetings

Matthew


RE: 8351 - overload protection and digital level
Answer
7/10/18 7:19 AM as a reply to matthew.
matthew:

 

 

jantex:
matthew:

Hi Jantex,

cool that you reply to my thread here. Your comments about the 8351 at gearslutz pointed me in the direction of the genelecs. You also wrote at GS that the digital input is better than the analog. if i recall it correctly you use an apollo 8p in your setup.

how are you controlling the volume? did you attenuate anything using glm or using dip switches at the monitor? I wrote that i assume 0db full scale signal from my antelope converter. Is it correct that spdif outs usually deliver 0 db full scale in converters?

You tested a lot of speakers. I read that at GS. It is funny cause the Genelecs were first not on my list for speakers to try out. I was first looking at speakers from Neumann, Focal for example. After a little gearslutz search about the topic i found your posts about all the speakers you tried and read the good words you had for the genelecs. I tried side by side Neumann KH 310, Focal SM9 and the 8351 at a local dealer. There was no comparision. The genelecs performed so much better. i was shocked how big the difference was. 

thanks a lot for your answer.

 

Matthew

Hi Matthwe,

You definitely chose the right speakers. They are the best purchase in my whole audio career and really are so much better from the competition. Engineering at its finest if I can say. I used Apollo 8P via Hosa SPDIF to AES adapter. Now I am using ADI-2 Pro connected via SPDIF to Apollo 8P, and AES out from ADI-2 Pro now feeds the Genelecs. I use exactly the thing I suggested you - that is Griffin Powermate to control Genelecs GLM volume. It performs flawlessly.

Best, Tine


 


Thanks again for your response. Cool that you say this so clear now.  Did you have the chance to compare them with the 8350 in the meantime? Your other thread here makes me feel a bit worried about my purchase. i mean your 8351 vs 8350 thread. i would still have the chance to send my 8351 back and get full money. i had the 8351 from a store here for testing the last 30 days. They were used ones that the store sends out for testing. i purchased them after this test period from another store - cause they offered them to me by a much much better price - i also had a lot of other stuff on my shopping list so it was a desicion not just on the price for the speakers. 

Is there a special reason that you included the adi 2 pro in your setup? the antelope also just has spdif out. no aes. i was in contact with genelec support and it was said, that even a connection using a neutrik impedance transformer would be just fine. there would be no need for a digital signal converter. In my research i found digital audio converters like the hosa you mention or a unit from Mutec. But genelec support said, that this would not be needed. What is your opinion? You seem to use a pretty solid unit just for this now?


greetings

Matthew


I have head and worked with 8350 and they are superb as well. Haven't used them at the same location as 8351s so I cannot give objective comparison, since different room has a strong infulence. So I cannot give any concluding opinion, that's why I also started a thread here in the forum, because I am interested what Genelec think about it. Majority of the measurements (frequency linearity, decay time, distortion levels) give serious edge to 8350. While on the other hand I haven't ever been so confident with any monitor i have ever had like I am with my 8351s.

This might sound funny, but I actually prefer the sound of AES comming out of ADI-2 Pro. I suppose it is due to steadyclock FS, which eliminates the jitter and the end result sounds much smoother than it did using my HOFA AES converter. While I am sure that both are bit accurate, I suppose this might be the reason. I would also like to add up that this is just my subjective observation. I don't know if I could objectively measure it. I also bought it to run with my Sennheiser HD800S headphones which are part of my monitoring together with 2x8351 + 2x7360.

Best, Tine

 


 


RE: 8351 - overload protection and digital level
Answer
7/10/18 8:03 AM as a reply to jantex.

Makes all sense what you write here. Thanks.

 

 


RE: 8351 - overload protection and digital level
Answer
7/11/18 12:08 AM as a reply to matthew.

I’m all the wiser for conversation. Thank you.

 

Allow me to share the little I know: The disadvantage for digital gain control is the accompanying bit dithering that affects SQ, especially at low volumes. If you feed your system an AES signal—as you do—controlling the gain via GLM will yield the best results, as Genelec has optimized the process.

 

My philosophy is the shorter the chain, the better. I use my system strictly for playback with a Schiit Eitr sitting between my computer and Genelec. The Eitr converts USB to SPDIF, which I bump to 110 ohm and convert to balanced signal with a Funk Casa-T cable. The volume is controlled via GLM. It’s a very clean solution and the SQ is fantastic.

(You can do that conversion with a fancy DAC, but you pay for a lot of unnecessary functionality; and the signal isn’t necessary superior, since the conversion is only one processes out of many for the device.)

 

It’s my workstation setup. If you want to sit at a distance from your system, your solution should meet the following criteria:

 

  • Ability to play locally stored files (optional)
  • Stream, optimally in an open echo-system where you can run apps to choose any service you like. (optional)
  • Control remotely over Apple/Android devices
  • SPDIF or AES output

 

So far, I’ve identified only DAPs as a one-box-solution: iBasso DX150 and DX200 and Hiby R6

 

Cheers!