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Balanced outputs to 6010, with 7050 subs and crossovers....

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Hi

First post so hopefully all good.
I have done a search of this forum but didn't find anything similar. I also did a web search but needed clarification.

I am about to replace my current unbalanced output and input powered speaker set up with 31 * 6010s and 4 * 7050b subs.
The room is 4m *3m and it's an ambisonic installation.
I have one Motu 24 i/o and two Motu 2408 mark 3 to drive the array. These are all balanced outputs but the inputs to the 6010s are unbalanced.
The 7050b subs are of course balanced.
What is the correct wiring for this unique set up?
I want to keep the cable runs balanced as long as possible (preferably unbalancing at input), but am unsure how the 6010s would cope. I am very good at soldering so will be making my own custom cables.
Also there would be some sensitivity issues in comparison to the 7050b subs, so what is a good setting?
Finally the cross overs will be handled by a software decoder, so what slope and cutoff is needed?

Thanks in advance

Steve

Re: Balanced outputs to 6010, with 7050 subs and crossovers.
Answer
6/28/16 8:56 AM as a reply to pingmonster.
Hi Steve,

Could you buy 8010's instead of 6010's? The 8010's have xlr inputs

Cheers
Matt

Re: Balanced outputs to 6010, with 7050 subs and crossovers.
Answer
7/1/16 11:43 AM as a reply to pingmonster.

I have one Motu 24 i/o and two Motu 2408 mark 3 to drive the array. These are all balanced outputs but the inputs to the 6010s are unbalanced.
The 7050b subs are of course balanced.
What is the correct wiring for this unique set up?
I want to keep the cable runs balanced as long as possible (preferably unbalancing at input), but am unsure how the 6010s would cope. I am very good at soldering so will be making my own custom cables.

Hi,

Balancing works only when both the source and the receiving end are balanced. If either of these is unbalanced, it is same as running with unbalanced signal connection. So, connection to 6010s will always be unbalanced, no matter how you run the cables. If you plan to use external crossover, you need to cable subwoofers and monitors separately from your source. Note that there is no absolute need for external crossover because the LF extension of the 6010 is close to the crossover point of the subwoofer (85 Hz). It is possible to run them without external crossover but you may get better results with it.


Also there would be some sensitivity issues in comparison to the 7050b subs, so what is a good setting?

Yes, the default sensitivity (both set to maximum) of the 7050B is 10 dB higher. You will need to lower the input sensitivity or lower the output gain from the source.

Finally the cross overs will be handled by a software decoder, so what slope and cutoff is needed?

Please notice my earlier explanation. You can use 85 Hz crossover with 12 dB/octave slope.

Re: Balanced outputs to 6010, with 7050 subs and crossovers.
Answer
7/7/16 10:38 AM as a reply to pingmonster.
Hi

Thanks for the responses.

Obviously buying 31 8010s is not an option due to cost, as I already have the 6010s!

So for the crossover I will get better results if I hi-pass to the 6010s at 85hz with a 12db slope, and lowpass to the 7050bs at 85hz 12db slope? Which inputs should I use on the 7050bs? Left or LFE, or doesn't it matter?
I will attenuate the signal by 10db to the 7050bs at source, as I this will be more accurate.

As far as balancing is concerned; I thought there is a noise benefit from connecting as if balanced at one end but obviously not at the 6010s end. This would not be not be a balanced connection per se but it would it not have the benefit of suppressing a little more EMI/RF than having both ends connected as if un-balanced?
It's how I go about it to achieve the best result. I will check with motu to find out how they balance their outputs, but I was going to do this pending their reply:

XLR Pin-1/TRS shield--->RCA Sleeve
XLR Pin-2-/TRS tip--> RCA Center pin
XLR Pin-3/TRS ring---> Unconnected at the 6010 end (Doesn't load the (-) output)

My presumptions have been based on this excellent article btw:

http://www.presonus.com/news/articles/b ... unbalanced

Or do you recommend the use of a balun?


Thanks

Steve

Re: Balanced outputs to 6010, with 7050 subs and crossovers.
Answer
8/2/16 10:32 AM as a reply to pingmonster.

So for the crossover I will get better results if I hi-pass to the 6010s at 85hz with a 12db slope, and lowpass to the 7050bs at 85hz 12db slope? Which inputs should I use on the 7050bs? Left or LFE, or doesn't it matter?
I will attenuate the signal by 10db to the 7050bs at source, as I this will be more accurate.

You should only high pass the monitors but leave the subwoofer unfiltered. Subwoofer inputs are already filtered at 85 Hz. The LFE input has a selectable filter at 85 Hz or 120 Hz.


As far as balancing is concerned; I thought there is a noise benefit from connecting as if balanced at one end but obviously not at the 6010s end. This would not be not be a balanced connection per se but it would it not have the benefit of suppressing a little more EMI/RF than having both ends connected as if un-balanced?
It's how I go about it to achieve the best result. I will check with motu to find out how they balance their outputs, but I was going to do this pending their reply:

XLR Pin-1/TRS shield--->RCA Sleeve
XLR Pin-2-/TRS tip--> RCA Center pin
XLR Pin-3/TRS ring---> Unconnected at the 6010 end (Doesn't load the (-) output)

My presumptions have been based on this excellent article btw:

http://www.presonus.com/news/articles/b ... unbalanced

Or do you recommend the use of a balun?

It's pretty much impossible to state that any method would be supreme to the other, typically the differences can only be measured with laboratory grade instruments. The best way is to test and listen if you can hear any difference. The type of signal cable will of course have its own effect too.

RE: Balanced outputs to 6010, with 7050 subs and crossovers....
Answer
8/7/18 2:42 AM as a reply to pingmonster.
I will attenuate the signal by 10db to the 7050bs at the source, as I this will be more accurate.
devil