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Need some help on my home theater equipments

gl3678890, modified 10 Months ago.

Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts

Hi guys,

I just bought a pair of 8351 and love the sound. Am considering using all genelec products in my new home theatre instead of hifi gears now.

Here is some basic info:

The room dimension:

4.2m*6.2m*2.6m(tall)

There is one big glass window measures 2.2m*2.6m on each of the two 4.2m*2.6m walls.

My typical listening sound presure is 80-95dB for music, and no louder than 100dB for movie.

I plan to use a stuart 160"-165" perforated screen on one of the 4.2m*2.6m walls, with a sony vw260es projector.

I would sit 3m-3.5m far from the screen, the screen would be 1m-1.2m far from the window, the front speakers would be behind the screen when I watch movies.

I would like to make it 9.1.4(with marantz AV8805) or even better 11.1.6.( this requires trinnov  Altitude 32)

 

My questions:

1. Is 3*8351 enough for LCR? If not what would be better(speaking of sound pressure and also fidelity, genelec products) 

2. Should I use  8330 or 8340 for surround and ceiling? 

3. What about 8341? Genelec suggest 8341 for ceiling in their <immersive audio guide>, I am wondering would that make a audible difference compare to 8340?

4. What sub should I use? I read a lot of Hifi guys consider genelec subs extremely over priced, what do you think? They mostly suggest SVS subs, is it possible that I use SVS subs and also using GLM?

5. Do you have any experence with AIC25 in ceiling speaker? would it be good for my system compare to a traditional 8000 series speaker? because my ceiling is low, after the decoration it could be even as low as 2.3m, so it would be diffcult to install 8000 series on the ceiling.

6. Generally what are your experience with using active genelecs to do home theatre? Would it be better than hifi gears on the same price level? I have not experienced this so I can only guess.

 

Any feedback is welcomed, you dont have to reply to all the boring questions:)

Cheers,

L

lukester, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 128 Join Date: 4/22/10 Recent Posts

1. 3x 8351 is enough for LCR

2. i'd say 8330 is totally enough.

3. I wouldn't, in this scenario you don't need what makes 8341 special and expensive.

4. i recommend stereo subs, much better for music listening. 2x 7360 or 2x 7370. you need genelec subs for GLM.
genelec subs are not overpriced compared to other studio gear.

5. no

6. Genelec gear beats hi fi gear 3x the price, i was in a hi-fi shop recently, listened to 20k systems, was bloody awful, ridiculous.

 

i use 1237 speakers in my home cinema, fucking brilliant, much more fun than 8351 if you sit >2m away

8351 is a brilliant speaker, i use them for work, but for home listening 1237, 1238 is much better.

If you're genuinely rich 1234 is the obvious answer. stereo so good that surround becomes a distant afterthought.

gl3678890, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
lukester:

1. 3x 8351 is enough for LCR

2. i'd say 8330 is totally enough.

3. I wouldn't, in this scenario you don't need what makes 8341 special and expensive.

4. i recommend stereo subs, much better for music listening. 2x 7360 or 2x 7370. you need genelec subs for GLM.
genelec subs are not overpriced compared to other studio gear.

5. no

6. Genelec gear beats hi fi gear 3x the price, i was in a hi-fi shop recently, listened to 20k systems, was bloody awful, ridiculous.

 

i use 1237 speakers in my home cinema, fucking brilliant, much more fun than 8351 if you sit >2m away

8351 is a brilliant speaker, i use them for work, but for home listening 1237, 1238 is much better.

If you're genuinely rich 1234 is the obvious answer. stereo so good that surround becomes a distant afterthought.

 
lukester:

1. 3x 8351 is enough for LCR

2. i'd say 8330 is totally enough.

3. I wouldn't, in this scenario you don't need what makes 8341 special and expensive.

4. i recommend stereo subs, much better for music listening. 2x 7360 or 2x 7370. you need genelec subs for GLM.
genelec subs are not overpriced compared to other studio gear.

5. no

6. Genelec gear beats hi fi gear 3x the price, i was in a hi-fi shop recently, listened to 20k systems, was bloody awful, ridiculous.

 

i use 1237 speakers in my home cinema, fucking brilliant, much more fun than 8351 if you sit >2m away

8351 is a brilliant speaker, i use them for work, but for home listening 1237, 1238 is much better.

If you're genuinely rich 1234 is the obvious answer. stereo so good that surround becomes a distant afterthought.

Lukester:

Thank you so much for your reply. I value your opinion a lot. Some further questions if you dont mind:

1. Do you mean 8351 is good enough for a 3m-4m listening distance? I checked the price 8351 is 4k usd, 1237 only 6k usd, no big difference for me. So I am wondering should I use 3*1237(or even 1238) in my 4.2m*6.2m theatre instead of 8351?

2. 8330 is so cheap, if this is enough I'd save 20k usd.

However if I use 1237 instead of 8351, should I upgrade surrounds from 8330 to 8340?

4. Stereo 7370 would be better than single 7380? You mean using one sub for left channel and one sub for right channel for music? am I understanding it right? (in theatre mode there is only one LFE signal)

6. Glad to hear that! 

I know 1234 is flagship of genelec, however it is 100k usd,  the price is ok for me but I would rather buy a pair of MBL 101E and put it in my lobby for that kind of money:) You know flagship is always overpriced, like MBL 101x, wilson WAMM, etc.

Again thanks for your response!

Cheers,

L

gl3678890, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts

I looked into this spec:

Maximum short term sine wave SPL output at 1 m on axis in half space, averaged as specified

For 8330, it's 104dB

For 8351, it's 111dB

For 1237, it's 118dB

Because my ear to front speaker distance would be typically 3.4m, to surround would be typically 1.7m, so the distance difference would attenuate the output -6dB, hence make 8351 111-6dB=105dB, which match 8330's 104dB output pretty good.

Do you guys agree on this power match method or am I totally wrong?

And apart from the power, would 1237A be better for music/movie in a 3.4m distance than 8351?

 

Thanks!

 

lukester, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 128 Join Date: 4/22/10 Recent Posts

1.  8351 is very good, definitely good enough, 99,997% of the world's population listen on lesser systems.
but 1237 and 1238 are better if you have the space. They are much bigger and heavier and that does make a difference.

8351 works at any distance because of the coaxial design. 0.5 or 5 meters, the speaker will perform.
1237 et. al. need distance or the sound will be bad. but it's a lot better for >2m listening distance.

as you're in the US, i'd recommend 1238.
in europe 1237 is comparatively cheaper right now and i'd recommend it over 1238 beacause it's entirely big enough for your room.

for a center channel you can use one or both 8351 or 1238AC.

 

2. i'm convinced that you won't notice a real world performance difference between 8330 and 8340 for sorrund channels in a room your size.

 

4. you unterstand it right.

with a system this good, you might find yourself listening to music more often than warching movies.

 

6. 1234 is 22k € incl vat per pair in europe, don't know usd price  but it's not 100k

 

7. you power matching approach is reasonable, i mentally matched against overkill insanity rather than SPL.

 

8. mounting the speakers behind a perforated screen doesn't feel right to me.

not a problem for the bass driver, but mid/high needs to be undisturbed for maximum sound quality.

maybe just mount the center channel behind screen.

 

9. Be sure to know, that you are in an audio perfomance league where room acoustics are significant.

3 cubic meters bass absorbers at a minimum.
 

gl3678890, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts

Lukester:

Thanks for reply.

Since genelec is generally very easy to upgrade(no power amp matching problem etc.), I think I would usd 3*8351 as LCR and 10*8330 as surrounds/ceiling first, if not powerful enough I would upgrade the fronts to 1237.

 

For AV receiver I would use marantz 8805 instead of trinnov, since I see many reviews say trinnov is for bigger theatre than mine(so the more speakers advantage could actrually realize) , and for all those speakers I only need to spend usd 21,000 which is so damn cheap, I don't think a usd 30,000 av receiver would justify the price when the speakers are so cheap.

 

1. For the subs I do have questions, genelec subs price as follows(usd):

7380  5.4k
7370  4k
7360  2.6k

So basically it seems 7380 is the way to go if I need 7370(price no big difference but much larger piston), so do you think 2*7360 is good enough for my system? Or should I use 2*7380?

Gedlee suggest 2-3 subs for better room response, (http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/multiple%20subs.pdf), I am not sure if the 7360 10" piston is big enough for my room.

 

2. And another question, how do you mount 8330 on the ceiling? I did not see any good options which hang high enough(because my ceiling is only 2.6m high, after the decoration it could be as low as 2.3m) and not ugly like hell....

 

 

 

 

gl3678890, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
I mean 1236 is usd 100k:) the flagship
lukester, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 128 Join Date: 4/22/10 Recent Posts

true that.

you will easily survive on 1234s though ;)

1236 also weighs 200 kg per unit linear to smaller models.

 

i cannot imagine that 10x 8330 is the way to go.

Immersive is also a buzz right now also because we have finally managed to pull it off easily. Not to ridicule or cut short.

A 1238 speaker is something to be beholden, has been for 25 years.

i'm failry certain a 5.2 setup with 1238s will be way more musical, dynamic, clean and easier to optimize.

12 mid/high freq speakers in a room is also a asking for trouble with 1st order reflections.

 

can't give you receiver advice, i'd do it with a htpc and 500-1000$ sound card. you want to drive the speakers with AES digital.

No matter the price, no receiver can beat this in sound quality, unless it inroduces minute coloration you happen to like while on paper reducing dynamics.

 

1. you can pick whatever, the bigger you go, the further you can upgrade your L/R.

7360 is sufficient for 8351, 7370 for 1237 and 7380 for 1238. but nothing's keeping you from using 2x 7380 with 8351s.

 

2. you have looked at the accessory pdf? there's stuff in there that could be appropriated with e.g. wooden stuts from ceiling.

n.b. orientation of ceiling speakers likely irrelevant, upside down etc no problem.

 

3. I'm glad to help, but please feel obligated to report back one project completed ;)

gl3678890, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
lukester:

true that.

you will easily survive on 1234s though ;)

1236 also weighs 200 kg per unit linear to smaller models.

 

i cannot imagine that 10x 8330 is the way to go.

Immersive is also a buzz right now also because we have finally managed to pull it off easily. Not to ridicule or cut short.

A 1238 speaker is something to be beholden, has been for 25 years.

i'm failry certain a 5.2 setup with 1238s will be way more musical, dynamic, clean and easier to optimize.

12 mid/high freq speakers in a room is also a asking for trouble with 1st order reflections.

 

can't give you receiver advice, i'd do it with a htpc and 500-1000$ sound card. you want to drive the speakers with AES digital.

No matter the price, no receiver can beat this in sound quality, unless it inroduces minute coloration you happen to like while on paper reducing dynamics.

 

1. you can pick whatever, the bigger you go, the further you can upgrade your L/R.

7360 is sufficient for 8351, 7370 for 1237 and 7380 for 1238. but nothing's keeping you from using 2x 7380 with 8351s.

 

2. you have looked at the accessory pdf? there's stuff in there that could be appropriated with e.g. wooden stuts from ceiling.

n.b. orientation of ceiling speakers likely irrelevant, upside down etc no problem.

 

3. I'm glad to help, but please feel obligated to report back one project completed ;)

I see the different opinions here between us is about immersive sound.

Well, to be honest I had a 7.1.4 system with cheap speakers from Dali in another city, if I use the system only for stereo, it's crap; however watching a dolby atmos film with it is a very satisfying enjoyment. (and if you watch a dolby atmos film without the ceiling speakers, it's much less fun). 

It's the technology, when VR could be finally hi-fi realized I guess we would love it even more.

About the digital input for genelecs, officially genelec says there would not be audible difference between analog input and digital input, I can not prove it because I am using analog only for my 8351 right now. Honestly a AD-DA conversion inside the DSP of 8351 does make me feel very uncomfortable, I just don't know if there is indeed an audible difference. 

I am interested in sound card output dolby atmos signal, however is there really any dolby atmos enabled sound card out there?  I googled a lot but it seems for now an AV receiver is still the way to go.

I know genelec accessorys but those are horribly priced, an adaptor is almost the same price as a 8030! WTH....

And yes of course I would report back the final results, but it would take a long time, my new house is still in designing period so I would have to wait at least 8 months:)



 

lukester, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 128 Join Date: 4/22/10 Recent Posts

regarding input quality:

sure, you absolutely shouldn't be able to tell the difference between inputs.

power management is actually better on analog in your scenario.

digital is dirt cheap for worry free quality and you can reduce self noise in a few scenarios.

 

I've done immersive years ago in art context, surround sometimes wasn't taken with it. but yeah, i also can't be sure how much is personal preference.

my listening room makes jaw trop ostensibly. but things are often not mutually exclusive

manutal, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

If you want real immersive sound go for Digital Genelecs + Trinnov Altitude 32 as pre-amp/optimizer ;)

gl3678890, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:

If you want real immersive sound go for Digital Genelecs + Trinnov Altitude 32 as pre-amp/optimizer ;)

I saw comments that trinnow 32 is for larger room, my room is only 6.2m*4.2m*2.4m, would I really benefit from trinnov 32? It's not a cheap piece...

 
magicvinny, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Youngling Posts: 10 Join Date: 2/2/15 Recent Posts

Is the choice of a pre-amp still important when using Genelec speakers? I'm talking only sound quality. Not the number of channels or analogue vs digital outputs.

Roomcorrection(GLM) and dsp are in the speakers so would you hear a difference in SQ if Genelecs are driven by a Datasat vs a Marantz?

magicvinny, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Youngling Posts: 10 Join Date: 2/2/15 Recent Posts
manutal:

If you want real immersive sound go for Digital Genelecs + Trinnov Altitude 32 as pre-amp/optimizer ;)

 

Is the choice of a pre-amp still important when using Genelec speakers? I'm talking only sound quality. Not the number of channels or analogue vs digital outputs.

Roomcorrection(GLM) and dsp are in the speakers so would you hear a difference in SQ if Genelecs are driven by a Datasat vs a Marantz?

manutal, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

Havent owned or tried the Datasat so I dont know about that one but the altitude 32 vs a marantz is like night/day.

I dont use the GLM for room calibration when using the Altitude 32. Can be used though if wanted, have tried.

The altitude 32 is also very good in smaller rooms, my room size : 360x390x260cm (My room is smaller than yours) with 16 digital channels, Genelecs.

gl3678890, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:

Havent owned or tried the Datasat so I dont know about that one but the altitude 32 vs a marantz is like night/day.

I dont use the GLM for room calibration when using the Altitude 32.

The altitude 32 is also very good in smaller rooms, my room size : 360x390x260cm (My room is smaller than yours) with 16 digital channels, Genelecs.

Thank you manutal, guess I have to arrange a trinnov demo for myself now:)

Mind to share your detailed equipments for my reference?

 

manutal, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

I highly recommend you do that, and with Genelecs if possible ;)

My setup: The spot is for one person calibrated, two can watch but its not optimal, such a small room & ofc I went overboard... xD

Preamp :Trinnov Altitude 32

Inputs OPPO UDP-203 & PC.

Speakers 16 channels: L&R: 1238A, C: 1238AC, SR&L: 1237A, SBR&L: 8351A, FWR&L: 8351A ,  4 heigh speakers: 8351A,  3x 7380A subwoofers.

TV: LG OLED 65" C8

Audioquest Vodka HDMI cables & normal 110ohm DMX cables for speakers via a Tascam DB25 connector from the Altitude

lukester, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 128 Join Date: 4/22/10 Recent Posts

manutal, can you please tell this dude, that having huge 1238s is more important than the number of speakers?

 

do you listen to music on your system too, or are you just re-enacting all world wars at once?

 

 

cheers

manutal, modified 10 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

Sure, The bigger the better.. Ofc the bigger genelecs need a little bit more space & listening distance, but not that much.

I listen to music in stereo too .incl, subs. :)

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:

I highly recommend you do that, and with Genelecs if possible ;)

My setup: The spot is for one person calibrated, two can watch but its not optimal, such a small room & ofc I went overboard... xD

Preamp :Trinnov Altitude 32

Inputs OPPO UDP-203 & PC.

Speakers 16 channels: L&R: 1238A, C: 1238AC, SR&L: 1237A, SBR&L: 8351A, FWR&L: 8351A ,  4 heigh speakers: 8351A,  3x 7380A subwoofers.

TV: LG OLED 65" C8

Audioquest Vodka HDMI cables & normal 110ohm DMX cables for speakers via a Tascam DB25 connector from the Altitude

WOW! That's a serious setup!

Did you install the 1237&1238 in wall?

If not 1237 is 380mm deep and your room is 3600mm wide, which leave you only 1.4m distance from ear to surround speaker at most, wouldn'd that be too loud? I mean when you really enjoy the movie with this setup I guess your GLM volume control is set to -30dB at most right? any louder it could hurt your ear!

Well I don't mean to question your gears, it would be great sound I am sure, however it just seems kind of overkill for me...

(when I listen to my 8351 from 1.5m the volume is -20dB at most, any louder I may feel pain in my ears. which means when I listen at a 3m distance the volume would be -14dB, which still has a 14dB headroom for dynamics, so I think 8351 would be enough for a 3m distance listening) 

1.Well I am interested in 1237/38 performance compare to 8351, because my local dealer is unable to make a comparision for me. Is it really audibly better at a 3m distance?

2.Did you use trinnov AES digital output to drive all your 16 genelec speakers? is it audibly different from analog XLR drive?

3.Did you do any acoustic treatment to your room? 3.9*3.6*2.6 would horrify me because of the potentially low frequency ringing.

Cheers,

 

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

Thanks! and no problem, glad to help.

Not mounted in a wall and yes sweetspot is pretty small. Got a concrete bunker here :) Lots of acoustic treatment, many basstraps diffusors you name it.. cant fit any more :)

I keep GLM at full level 0db and control the volume via altitude, usually -39-45db when watching movies.

Sure, a little bit overkill but in a room like yours for example the bigger genelecs wont be too big and sure there is a difference in authority and punch of the sound with the bigger models.

Yes, 16channels out via a DB25 "connector adapter" from the altitude to the speakers. Havent tried the analog outputs.

 

 

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts

 

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Manutal:

So you bypassed glm calibration? Is that because trinnov calibration is better in this case? Or is it because a double calibration would cause trouble?

And may I ask how much did you pay for the trinnov altitude (the 16 channel version?)? It seems my local dealer gave me a really high quote.

And have you compare 1238 to traditional hifi speakers like JBL 67000, b&w 800d3, wilson sasha...etc.? Originally I was going to buy MBL101e(it’s still possible), it is kind of unexpected that I bought a pair of 8351 to test it(and I am shocked by its performance).

 

Thanks!

 

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

Yep, nowadays I just bypass Autocal & Autophase in GLM. Im just doing a layup with the speakers, digital output, subframes, speakers in Full Band & configure ISS. I used to do double calibrations but I dont think it's necessary. Nowadays I only calibrate with the Altitude & it's mic. Trinnovs mic is a 3D mic, a "4in1" mic, really made to localize the speakers positions, this together with the Altitudes optimizer really makes the difference in immersiveness & 3D sound. After the calibration I just fix the bassmanagement how I like it. I like to let the speakers do what they can and let the subs do the rest, LFE is put at 120hz. Then just put the 3D remapping ON and save the preset. Pretty easy overall. One thing to remember with the Trinnov mic is to put on it when the altitude says to put on it when calibrating and then to remember to shut it off directly after the calibration, there can be some horrible echo sounds if you forget this.. :) The Presets are also a really nice feature on the altitude, you can easily save different kinds of setups and switch between them effortlessly.

I think it was around 25k€ 16channel version incl. Dolby/DTS/Auro 3D Codecs + ~700e for the calibration mic. (You can get the Altitude in 8,16,24 or 32 channels. It's also possible to upgrade it later if more channels are needed.) I also got my HDMI card updated this year, to a 2.0 board. That's a nice thing with the Altitude32, shit can be updated when needed, also on the hardware side.

Have been in a theatre that had JBL Synthesis + Altitude32, but it seemed like it required much more configuring to get the right sound, with the Active Genelecs it seems to be much easier to setup.  I guess you just have to test which speakers you really like and want to own. If you like the sound of the 8351 then youll probably also like the sound of the 1238's.

The best Atmos/DTS:X sounds I've ever experienced are on two different setups, both were run by an Altitude32 & Genelecs.

 

 

 

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:

Yep, nowadays I just bypass Autocal & Autophase in GLM. Im just doing a layup with the speakers, digital output, subframes, speakers in Full Band & configure ISS. I used to do double calibrations but I dont think it's necessary. Nowadays I only calibrate with the Altitude & it's mic. Trinnovs mic is a 3D mic, a "4in1" mic, really made to localize the speakers positions, this together with the Altitudes optimizer really makes the difference in immersiveness & 3D sound.

I think it was around 25k€ 16channel version incl. Dolby/DTS/Auro 3D Codecs + ~700e for the calibration mic. (You can get the Altitude in 8,16,24 or 32 channels. It's also possible to upgrade it later if more channels are needed.) I also got my HDMI card updated this year, to a 2.0 board. That's a nice thing with the Altitude32, shit can be updated when needed, also on the hardware side.

Have been in a theatre that had JBL Synthesis + Altitude32, but it seemed like it required much more configuring to get the right sound, with the Active Genelecs it seems to be much easier to setup.  I guess you just have to test which speakers you really like and want to own. If you like the sound of the 8351 then youll probably also like the sound of the 1238's.

The best Atmos/DTS:X sounds I've ever experienced are on two different setups, both were run by an Altitude32 & Genelecs.

 

 

 

"Trinnov offers the Altitude32 in four versions: the eight-channel AL32-88 base model ($17,500), 16-channel AL32-816 ($21,000), 24-channel AL32-1624 ($25,500), and 32-channel AL32-1632 ($29,000)—all priced without the $2,500 3D Audio package that brings Atmos, DTS:X, and Auro-3D into the fold."
Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/trinnov-altitude32-av-preamplifierprocessor#1p7ouBxjS0p1gDuq.99

 

It seems that in US 16-channel version is only 21k usd, much cheaper than in europe? since it's made in France this is kind of shocking...Those hifi gears'(especially the really hi-end ones) prices are always so opaque, make it harder for me to decide.

 

I have listened and compared B&W nautilus, 800D3, 804, 805; JBL DD66000, 9800; Wilson Sasha, MBL 101e and Focal Utopia.

And of coure I bought a pair of 8351 for test, and my conclusion is 8351 has the best dynamic and accuracy, the only downside is when listen to heavy metal stuff, the sound of 8351 is kind of lean compare to JBL DD66000.

And I like MBL 101e, however it's always not very faithful to original music.

Since you have both 1237 & 1238, would you mind to share some thoughts of the comparision of 1237 vs 1238 vs 8351? I called my dealer and it seems I don't have a chance to see a 1237/1238 demo. Either buy it or forget it :(

According to my experience with JBL DD66000 & 9800, I can only guess that 1238 would has a better/bigger sound when playing heavy metal stuff...

 

Cheers,

L

Oh and one of the best thing about Genelec: extremely higher resale value. compare to traditional hifi gears It's crazy!



 

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

22k€ here about without the 3D codecs, without discount.

Yes the 8351 is not the "best" option for heavy metal or that sort of music, atleast without a subwoofer(7370/7380).

The 1237&1238 will blow your mind, if you like the dynamics & accuracy on the 8351.. They will bring much more of it :) You just cant go wrong with them..

Three words: GENELEC MASTER SAMs! 

Quality & excellence holds the price or second hand value :)

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:

22k€ here about without the 3D codecs, without discount.

Yes the 8351 is not the "best" option for heavy metal or that sort of music, atleast without a subwoofer(7370/7380).

The 1237&1238 will blow your mind, if you like the dynamics & accuracy on the 8351.. They will bring much more of it :) You just cant go wrong with them..

Three words: GENELEC MASTER SAMs! 

OK.

I'm sold.

Which should I buy? 3*1237 or 3*1238? Is there any distinctive audible difference between those two?

I see the power and High/mid range are all the same, only difference on paper is the woofer, not sure about the performance...

 


 

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

The 1238 has a little bit more punch on the lower freqs and goes a few db lower but overall soundwise they are pretty close to eachother.

I would say that if the margin is not to bad for you you should choose the 1238's but on the other hand the 1237's are honestly really close to them soundwise and youre building a multichannel setup so the 1237 will be just fine, One or a couple of 7380's and it would be hard or impossible to hear the difference in a blind hearing test. (between the 1238 vs 1237 with 7380's as subs) depending a little on the crossovers for the subs ofc.. :)

Look at the 1238AC as a center. How many cm are you going to have between you Left & Right speaker btw?

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:

The 1238 has a little bit more punch on the lower freqs and goes a few db lower but overall soundwise they are pretty close to eachother.

I would say that if the margin is not to bad for you you should choose the 1238's but on the other hand the 1237's are honestly really close to them soundwise and youre building a multichannel setup so the 1237 will be just fine, One or a couple of 7380's and it would be hard or impossible to hear the difference in a blind hearing test. (between the 1238 vs 1237 with 7380's as subs)

Look at the 1238AC as a center. How many cm are you going to have between you Left & Right speaker btw?

I got it. so 3*1237+2*7380

My room is 4.2m wide, 1237 is 40cm wide, so between them there would be 2.5-2.8m space. 

I would use stewart perf screen so I guess 3*1237 would be good (exactly the same timbre/height/power)

 

Cheers,

 

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

I updated some of my old posts. Little more info etc for you, and if theres anything I can surely help you out.

That will be a sick front end and downstairs for your room for sure :) What are you now thinking for surrounds/height speakers?

If you can get the center behind the screen at the right height then go for it. If not, then I would go for 2x 1238 instead without a center. In my setup atm the center is pretty much a tv stand, sure I have a stand for the speaker(1238AC) but its just 30cm of the ground because I use a 65" OLED. So the speaker is a little bit too low and when 3D remapping is on the altitude, the 3Dremapping or altitude doesnt want to use the center at all, the stereo image is better. Only 160cm from L to R in my room.

Email: anderzz85(at)gmail.com

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:

I updated some of my old posts. Little more info etc for you, and if theres anything I can surely help you out.

That will be a sick front end and downstairs for your room for sure :) What are you now thinking for surrounds/height speakers?

If you can get the center behind the screen at the right height then go for it. If not, then I would go for 2x 1238 instead without a center. In my setup atm the center is pretty much a tv stand, sure I have a stand for the speaker(1238AC) but its just 30cm because I use a 65" OLED. So the speaker is a little bit too low and when 3D remapping is on the altitude, the 3Dremapping or altitude doesnt want to use the center at all, the stereo image is better. Only 160cm from L to R in my room.

Email: anderzz85(at)gmail.com

 

Without center speaker doesn't seem a good choice. Yes Stereo speakers could make a center phantom, but our ears don't like the sound of a phantom, a real center in an appropiate height would be much better, plus in a movie I guess 80% sound power is output from the center speaker?

 

I have been thinking about the surrounds/sky speakers, my thought is power/sound presure level match. Since 1237 is 118dB on spec and 3.4m from my ears, then surround speakers 1.7m to my ears should ideally have 112dB output, the choice could be:

8050

8340

8350

8341

8351

5 series are too big physically (would in effect make my room smaller), so that leaves 8340 & 8341.

I remember a guy says I don't need the coaxial speakers for surrounds and ceiling. what is your opinion on that?

Because I would use at least 13 8340/8341, if change all the 8341 to 8340 there would be very little audible difference, then I would save 17K usd.

So I do prefer 13*8340, just not sure about the immersive experience difference... 

Oh BTW do you know how is a typical suround/back/ceiling channel sound oupput level compare to LCR sound output level? I asumed those are the same, but if not maybe even 8330 would be enough.

 

Cheers,

L

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

Yep a center is good when you have the space & can use an acoustically transparent screen with a projector but with a big TV screen you cant do that, yet.. :)

8340 will be a good choice for you but I dont think the 8350 or 8351's are too big for your room. I guess you are dedicating this room to the hometheater ?

The Genelec Ones series works perfectly as surrounds/heights in a pretty tight or small room. 3-way is always better than 2-way imho, the mids and the overall sound image are usually better on the 3-ways but the 8340 will be really nice too as surrounds, dont get me wrong.. :)

8330 maybe might work, especially for the height speakers. If you would have 8351 as LCR then the 8330 would work fine as surrounds but with the 1237's as LCR, I would choose the 8340s, atleast for surround & surround back. 8330 would work fine as height speakers.. 4 or 6 height speakers?

 

 

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:

Yep a center is good when you can use a acoustically transparent screen with a projector but with a big TV screen you cant do that, yet.. :)

8340 will be a good choice for you but I dont think the 8350 or 8351's are too big for your room. I guess you are dedicating this room to the hometheater ?

The Genelec Ones series works perfectly as surrounds/heights in a pretty tight or small room. 3-way is always better than 2-way imho, the mids are usually better on the 3-ways but the 8340 will be really nice too as surrounds, dont get me wrong.. :)

8330 maybe might work, especially for the height speakers. If you would have 8351 as LCR then the 8330 would work fine as surrounds but with the 1237's as LCR, I would choose the 8340s, atleast for the basic surrounds, 8330 would work fine as height speakers.. 4 or 6 height speakers?

 

 

Yep after today's trinnov demo I believe 8330 for heights is ok, and 8340 for surrounds. There is no need to use 5 series because they don't offer more output power compare to 4 series, just better LF extension which we don't need in a home theatre( handled by woofers).

I am very impressed by the demo. Local dealer use crap speakers as heights(11 height speakers) and the sounds are good. The best about trinnov is it can give new life to old film without sky sound channel. The upmix feature of trinnov works so good that those old films(transformer 2, tron) feels like dolby atmos edition, wow!

And I found that I actually can put as much speakers as possible in the theatre, because trinnov could handle them all and make the sound more smooth, in this case more is better. So maybe 8 surround & 9 heights I guess, if use 8340 as surrounds and 8330 as heights, that would be dirt cheap!(surrounds would be at least 1.7m distance from my ear so I guess 8340 is ok compare to 8341, and since our ears are not that sensitive to sky sound position 8330 would be ok for height compare to 8331, money saved!)

My question: difference between Altitude 24 and Altitude 32.

I know 16 version could not be upgraded to 32(or could it?),  what about 24 version?

What's all the difference between 24 and 32 except channel counts?

Thanks!

L

 


 

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

Nice  to hear that you got the Altitude32 demo! The altitude32 can even make bad speakers sound more nice in a stereo or multichannels setup. The optimizer/3Dremapping is The SHIET! :D

Yep, the neural:x/dolby surround upmix works really nicely. Old movie sounds get a facelift or something like that :D

11 height speakers.. pretty many. Large demo room?  9 sounds a little strange too. I think youll manage just fine with 3 pairs of height speakers, maybe 4 pairs max in a room size like that.

There is also the possibility with the altitude32 to double up speakers, for example, two pairs of surrounds or surround backs..

The difference is only the different numbers of input/output channels. Wich can be upgraded later if more channels are needed, up to 64 channels. Did someone say to you that the 16 version cant be upgraded to a 24-32? The upgrade should be possible by installing a new card on your altitude32 and some software upgrades I think.(Edit:(Yes, this is the case) Ofc you need another kind of unit (Altitude48ext.) to reach 33-64 channels.

Trinnov Enables 48 and 64 Channel Immersive Audio Systems

Trinnov Enables 48 and 64 Channel Immersive Audio Systems with the Altitude48 and Altitude48ext

https://www.trinnov.com/2018/08/23/trinnov-audio-altitude48/

 

 

 

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:

Nice  to hear that you got the Altitude32 demo! The altitude32 can even make bad speakers sound more nice in a stereo or multichannels setup. The optimizer/3Dremapping is The SHIET! :D

Yep, the neural:x/dolby surround upmix works really nicely. Old movie sounds get a facelift or something like that :D

11 height speakers.. pretty many. Large demo room?  9 sounds a little strange too. I think youll manage just fine with 3 pairs of height speakers, maybe 4 pairs max in a room size like that.

There is also the possibility with the altitude32 to double up speakers, for example, two pairs of surrounds or surround backs..

The difference is only the different numbers of input/output channels. Wich can be upgraded later if more channels are needed, up to 64 channels. Did someone say to you that the 16 version cant be upgraded to a 24-32? The upgrade should be possible by installing a new card on your altitude32 and some software upgrades I think.(Edit:(Yes, this is the case) Ofc you need another kind of unit (Altitude48ext.) to reach 33-64 channels.

Trinnov Enables 48 and 64 Channel Immersive Audio Systems

Trinnov Enables 48 and 64 Channel Immersive Audio Systems with the Altitude48 and Altitude48ext

https://www.trinnov.com/2018/08/23/trinnov-audio-altitude48/

 

 

 

Yes I know ALT16 could not be upgraded to ALT32, what about ALT24? Which version are you using?

For us genelec fans we seem dont need the 48ext to fully use the 48 channel oupput of upgraded ALT32, because the 16channel AES outputs contains 32 channel information(each AES channel contains 2 channels infomation), and genelec SAMs could decode the AES information. correct me if I'm wrong.

 

lukester, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 128 Join Date: 4/22/10 Recent Posts

glad to see that you're leaning towards 1237/1238 now.

 

for a center speaker, you can also go 1238DF SAM

would save you a grand or two compared to 1238AC without discernable difference.

and be very careful with putting your L/R behind a perforated screen, this will harm treble performance.

another suggestion: maybe do a 5.2 setup first, see what that does for your libido (no diss, talking from experience),

go build a setup that you can expand to high channel count OR maybe 1234 for L/R, depending on your experience.

You have time enough to build up slowly, decideing everything now on paper is only making it harder for yourself.

 

to both of you:

EQ calibration is nice, acoustic treatment is better.

 

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
lukester:

glad to see that you're leaning towards 1237/1238 now.

 

for a center speaker, you can also go 1238DF SAM

would save you a grand or two compared to 1238AC without discernable difference.

and be very careful with putting your L/R behind a perforated screen, this will harm treble performance.

another suggestion: maybe do a 5.2 setup first, see what that does for your libido (no diss, talking from experience),

go build a setup that you can expand to high channel count OR maybe 1234 for L/R, depending on your experience.

You have time enough to build up slowly, decideing everything now on paper is only making it harder for yourself.

 

to both of you:

EQ calibration is nice, acoustic treatment is better.

 

Thanks for your advice Lukester!

I guess 1237/1238A/1238DF with a woofer like 7380 would perform much the same, considering the high/mid cone/amp/design similarity. The LF part of 1237 has a little bit more harmonic distortion than 1238A(3% compare to 0.5%) though. This is actually kind of a big difference if speaking on hifi stand point. In real life I bet I cant hear the difference:)

Still curious though, has anyone compare 1237/1238 to hifi gears like B&W 800D3/Focal Utopia/Wilson Sasha? 

From my own experience I can only say 8351 is better than flagship bookshelf speakers from Focal/B&W, but I don't have experience on 1237/1238.

 

Cheers,

L

 


 

lukester, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 128 Join Date: 4/22/10 Recent Posts

ATC 150 is on top of the heap right now.

Big B&Ws are also nothing to sneeze at.

a lot more expensive, none of our digital SAM wizadry.

Also you'll open the D/A can of worms.

I'm used to genelec sound and happen to like it too, accurate but still pleasant.

but this is so subjective that it only makes sense to get hints from other people of what to listen to yourself.

genelec is definitely very good and the tools for integration are the best in the industy, which is arguably the most important point with a setup like you're planning to do. The pricing is fairly humane and you get many different models and sizes to mix in your room. me thinks genelec should be a no-brainer for your scenario.

 

with my passion for stereo I should probaly demo ATC 150, but my current setup is so good that i can't be bothered.

And half this discussion is null and void if you don't treat the room.

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
lukester:

ATC 150 is on top of the heap right now.

Big B&Ws are also nothing to sneeze at.

a lot more expensive, none of our digital SAM wizadry.

Also you'll open the D/A can of worms.

I'm used to genelec sound and happen to like it too, accurate but still pleasant.

but this is so subjective that it only makes sense to get hints from other people of what to listen to yourself.

genelec is definitely very good and the tools for integration are the best in the industy, which is arguably the most important point with a setup like you're planning to do. The pricing is fairly humane and you get many different models and sizes to mix in your room. me thinks genelec should be a no-brainer for your scenario.

 

with my passion for stereo I should probaly demo ATC 150, but my current setup is so good that i can't be bothered.

And half this discussion is null and void if you don't treat the room.

Yes definetly room treatment.
My planning is absorbtion in front & back wall & floor first reflection zone;

diffusion in side wall & ceiling first reflection zone ;

Mega traps in corners;

And maybe Passive Helmholtz resonator/Active Helmholtz resonator  if first mode is too problematic.

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

Altitude16 is a different machine. No digital multichannel on that one.

I have the Altitude 32 with 16 channels. When I  bought it ,16 channels was the max outputs for the digital domain. Mine is upgradable though to 24 or 32 channels if needed. This can be done with a hardware & software updtate.

Yea you could possibly convert the 1-16 digital channels to 32 analog channels. You would need the 48ext if you would like all you channels to be digital. It would be a little bit of a problem to use both the digital & analog outputs on the altitude32 because of the GLM setup. Either ones would not be in the layup &  Im not sure how that would work, maybe with two separate GLM units & setups, or then you have to have them all in stand alone mode but then you would have to have a separate GLM network for the analogs & digitals, for example first do the analog network and save the setting to the speakers and then to the same for the digital network. Little bit tricky, and harder to troubleshoot if theres some bug or something..

And again, Yes. Accoustic treatment is very important ofc to get the right sound.

 

 

 

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:

Altitude16 is a different machine. No digital multichannel on that one.

I have the Altitude 32 with 16 channels. When I  bought it ,16 channels was the max outputs for the digital domain. Mine is upgradable though to 24 or 32 channels if needed. This can be done with a hardware & software updtate.

Yea you could possibly convert the 1-16 digital channels to 32 analog channels. You would need the 48ext if you would like all you channels to be digital. It would be a little bit of a problem to use both the digital & analog outputs on the altitude32 because of the GLM setup. Either ones would not be in the layup &  Im not sure how that would work, maybe with two separate GLM units & setups..

And again, Yes. Accoustic treatment is very important ofc to get the right sound.

 

 

 

The verisions confused me.
So there is a 16 channel un-upgradeble version,

And a 16 channel upgradeble version?

What about the 24 channel versions? also one un-upgradeble & one upgradeble?

Holly molly...


 

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

There is an altitude 16, https://www.trinnov.com/altitude-16_v2/

Then there is the altitude 32 https://www.trinnov.com/altitude-32/

Different pre-amps from Trinnov.

The Altitude32 is possible to get in 8,16,24 or 32 channels. But this pre-amp is upgradable later if needed, as mentioned.

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:

There is an altitude 16, https://www.trinnov.com/altitude-16_v2/

Then there is the altitude 32 https://www.trinnov.com/altitude-32/

Different pre-amps from Trinnov.

The Altitude32 is possible to get in 8,16,24 or 32 channels. But this pre-amp is upgradable later if needed, as mentioned.

Got it. Different product, different size.

So what I need is called Altitude 32 16-24

Complex naming....


 

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

Yes, Excactly!

Can be a little bit complicated. The Altitude 16 was just released this year, cheaper Altitude with only 16 analog outputs. Digital Stereo outputs also.. but yea youre not looking at that one.. :)

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts

Guys I am thinking about a pair of 7380 with 1237a/1238a/1238df as LCR, among those 3 options 1237a would be same price as 1238df.

Speaking of sound quality, do you think there would be any audible difference between those three(using 7380 as stereo subs)?

1238df seems very tempting because the shallower body dimention. If I use 1238df I would save 10cm distance between my screen and front wall(tweeter to perf screen 30cm distance) ,compare to using 1237a.

 

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts
All of those will work fine. The difference soundwise is mostly on the LF side. They all have the same size DCW & the same midrange/tweeter & amps.
gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:
All of those will work fine. The difference soundwise is mostly on the LF side. They all have the same size DCW & the same midrange/tweeter & amps.

Yes It should be.

What surprise me today is I found that among all current Genelec products, 8260 has the deepest LF extention(except for the gigantic 1236 of course) all the way to 20HZ(-10dB). Even 1238A could only do it to 26Hz(-10dB)!

And for directivity, 8260 is also the best.
So technically if using without a subwoofer, you know just for stereo music,  8260 sould be the best choice...

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

The 8260 cant hang with the Masters, that's why they are called the Master class.. :)

Dont get me wrong, I have owned & still own a pair of 8260s, great speakers overall.  They might work for your theatre though with the perf screen because the accuracy etc will either way take some hits. Have you though of getting a accoustically transparent screen, would be ideal, I guess.

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
manutal:

The 8260 cant hang with the Masters, that's why they are called the Master class.. :)

Dont get me wrong, I have owned & still own a pair of 8260s, great speakers overall.  They might work for your theatre though with the perf screen because the accuracy etc will either way take some hits. Have you though of getting a accoustically transparent screen, would be ideal, I guess.

Ah I didn't express clearly:)

I have 4 places to put speakers, home theatre is only one of them. For my living room, working room, and bedroom I also want to put some genelecs in them.

For the theatre the LCR depends on the screen size, if I were to choose smaller screen, then no perf & using 8351/8260 even 8341 as LCR, just put the speakers by the side wall.

If I were to choose bigger screen, then 1237/1238 with perf screen, also bigger projector is needed.

Just thinking about maybe for my working room stereo speakers, maybe 8260 would be the best choice?

 

 


 

magicvinny, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Youngling Posts: 10 Join Date: 2/2/15 Recent Posts

I went to IBC in Amsterdam to visit the Genelec Booth. The set up was 7.1.4 with S360 as LCR and I guess a combination of 8351 and 8341 for surrounds. 

There is just one thing I noticed and that's the harshness at high levels. They were showing a clip of the movie "Gravity" and when there was the explosion in the

beginning of the movie it sounded really harsh. Do you guys experience this too with the 83xx series??

I know the S360 is using a compression driver tweeter, could that be the reason?

I wanted to install Genelecs for my HT but after hearing this I'm totally put off.

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
magicvinny:

I went to IBC in Amsterdam to visit the Genelec Booth. The set up was 7.1.4 with S360 as LCR and I guess a combination of 8351 and 8341 for surrounds. 

There is just one thing I noticed and that's the harshness at high levels. They were showing a clip of the movie "Gravity" and when there was the explosion in the

beginning of the movie it sounded really harsh. Do you guys experience this too with the 83xx series??

I know the S360 is using a compression driver tweeter, could that be the reason?

I wanted to install Genelecs for my HT but after hearing this I'm totally put off.

I think Genelec is indeed a little bit overwhelming in HF domain when watching high dynamic sound films. Maybe roll off a little bit in GLM would be better.

Did you measure the sound pressure level there? If too loud any speaker could sound harsh. 

And for explosions, maybe it "should" be harsh, I won't expect an explosion to be pleasing the ears:D  

 

lukester, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 128 Join Date: 4/22/10 Recent Posts

hmm, I'd guess that what you experienced was mostly an untreated room.

 

my 8351s were also harsh in a new, untretad room.

now it's better, but they are not as hi-fi-y as the old 1031s et al.

1237s and other mains are not harsh at all.

8531 is great to work on, 1237 is great for fun.

haven't heard 360s yet, but i somehow doubt it's for our use case.

magicvinny, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Youngling Posts: 10 Join Date: 2/2/15 Recent Posts

The room was certainly treated with diffusers and absorbers. So I don't think that would be the problem. Not sure if calibration was not done correctly.

I'm not sure explosions should sound harsh, they should sound dynamic. Otherwise an action movie will be

very fatiguing to watch. 

On the other hand, we also could hear some music from the Hoff ensemble and that sounded marvelous. Maybe Genelecs are just not for me.

jani-oksanen, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Master Posts: 323 Join Date: 3/30/17 Recent Posts

Thank you for sharing the feedback. I discussed with the IBC staff, and I've got an reply below:
 

"Hi all,

 

There might be another explanation for this; on the second morning we started running demos and there was harshness from the front, some people commented on this and I was confused as everything had been working fine on the first day. I did not want to stop the demo as we had a full room, I lowered the volume and the music part worked well. After that we closed the room, I started to test the front and found out the center was a lot louder than L/R. The reason was that the 3rd party software we were using had for some reason put +12dB on the center channel, I have no idea why. When this was fixed all worked well. I don´t know if this happened during the case I explained above, I am quite sensitive to too much HF myself and I usually roll it off, especially if there is a need to use higher volume.
 

We got a lot of very positive comments after the demos, some said the problem is that the setup sounded too good."

 

We apologize about this bad experience you may had, and hopefully you will be able to listen to Genelec's later again. With SAM-monitors, the good thing is that you can adjust the sound to your own preference.

 

Best Regards,
Jani Oksanen
Customer Support Team

magicvinny, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Youngling Posts: 10 Join Date: 2/2/15 Recent Posts
jani-oksanen:

Thank you for sharing the feedback. I discussed with the IBC staff, and I've got an reply below:
 

"Hi all,

 

There might be another explanation for this; on the second morning we started running demos and there was harshness from the front, some people commented on this and I was confused as everything had been working fine on the first day. I did not want to stop the demo as we had a full room, I lowered the volume and the music part worked well. After that we closed the room, I started to test the front and found out the center was a lot louder than L/R. The reason was that the 3rd party software we were using had for some reason put +12dB on the center channel, I have no idea why. When this was fixed all worked well. I don´t know if this happened during the case I explained above, I am quite sensitive to too much HF myself and I usually roll it off, especially if there is a need to use higher volume.
 

We got a lot of very positive comments after the demos, some said the problem is that the setup sounded too good."

 

We apologize about this bad experience you may had, and hopefully you will be able to listen to Genelec's later again. With SAM-monitors, the good thing is that you can adjust the sound to your own preference.

 

Best Regards,
Jani Oksanen
Customer Support Team

Actually I was there on the day Bernard Löhr did his presentation wich I also attended. You can see me even on the picture from the presentation but it was quite dark :)

So not sure if the problem was taken care off by then already. Can it also be the nature of the compression tweeter? This is not the same then in the Ones if I'm correct? 

It's a bit a shame this is happening on such big shows. There are not many occasions where you can go listen to a Genelec Immersive set up. I guess the Genelec truck is not coming to Belgium :)

 


 
gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
jani-oksanen:

Thank you for sharing the feedback. I discussed with the IBC staff, and I've got an reply below:
 

"Hi all,

 

There might be another explanation for this; on the second morning we started running demos and there was harshness from the front, some people commented on this and I was confused as everything had been working fine on the first day. I did not want to stop the demo as we had a full room, I lowered the volume and the music part worked well. After that we closed the room, I started to test the front and found out the center was a lot louder than L/R. The reason was that the 3rd party software we were using had for some reason put +12dB on the center channel, I have no idea why. When this was fixed all worked well. I don´t know if this happened during the case I explained above, I am quite sensitive to too much HF myself and I usually roll it off, especially if there is a need to use higher volume.
 

We got a lot of very positive comments after the demos, some said the problem is that the setup sounded too good."

 

We apologize about this bad experience you may had, and hopefully you will be able to listen to Genelec's later again. With SAM-monitors, the good thing is that you can adjust the sound to your own preference.

 

Best Regards,
Jani Oksanen
Customer Support Team

I like your attitude, very professional.



 

manutal, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Jedi Knight Posts: 172 Join Date: 4/25/14 Recent Posts

Ah ok. Didnt know you were looking for a stereo pair too, I guess you just have to try em out ;) Cant go wrong with Genelec SAM's <3

and to magicvinny, I wouldnt lay such much weight on a fair demo. ofc they can be good but theres usually something... Yes, different (new) tweeter on the S360, titanium diaphragm compression tweeter., not the metal dome as the other models.

Maybe you as I like to put some -dbs on the HF side, I like to have from 2k to 20k a -5db curve for example, with my genelecs.

gunther70a, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Youngling Posts: 4 Join Date: 6/20/18 Recent Posts

3 x 1238AC in vertical orientation would be my choice for LCR in that budget & listening distance. As often forgotten third sibling of touted 1238A & 1238DF, 1238AC in vertical configuration (DCW 90 degrees rotated, woofers up) offers enhanced vertical directivity to tactically counter those otherwise very difficult to tame low-mid/upper-bass -reflections from floor and ceiling (floor especially). That would be great practical advantage in room over 1237A, 1238A and 1238DF.

As AT-screen, opt absolutely to WOVEN screen material. Screen Excellence is famous of their woven AT-screens, to mention a brand.
Acoustical transparency of woven screen is superior to any traditional perforated material. At least in Screen Excellence, their equally important optical properties are very good too.  

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
gunther70a:

3 x 1238AC in vertical orientation would be my choice for LCR in that budget & listening distance. As often forgotten third sibling of touted 1238A & 1238DF, 1238AC in vertical configuration (DCW 90 degrees rotated, woofers up) offers enhanced vertical directivity to tactically counter those otherwise very difficult to tame low-mid/upper-bass -reflections from floor and ceiling (floor especially). That would be great practical advantage in room over 1237A, 1238A and 1238DF.

As AT-screen, opt absolutely to WOVEN screen material. Screen Excellence is famous of their woven AT-screens, to mention a brand.
Acoustical transparency of woven screen is superior to any traditional perforated material. At least in Screen Excellence, their equally important optical properties are very good too.  

Thanks for advice.

Well perf vs woven is long debated, generally woven would have a greater light loss so I wont consider(cause using big screen + low cost projector).
1238AC vertical is inspiring. Very slim compare to 1238A, however I noticed the on axial frequency response is not even, especailly a 3k Hz dip, compare to 1238A & DF & 1237A, 1238AC is inferior in on-axial frequency response.

If to avoid first reflection of  floor, I guess inverse 1238A to put the woofer on top is also a way to go.
 

Cheers,

L

gunther70a, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Youngling Posts: 4 Join Date: 6/20/18 Recent Posts
gl3678890:

Thanks for advice.

Well perf vs woven is long debated, generally woven would have a greater light loss so I wont consider(cause using big screen + low cost projector).
1238AC vertical is inspiring. Very slim compare to 1238A, however I noticed the on axial frequency response is not even, especailly a 3k Hz dip, compare to 1238A & DF & 1237A, 1238AC is inferior in on-axial frequency response.

If to avoid first reflection of  floor, I guess inverse 1238A to put the woofer on top is also a way to go.
 

Cheers,

L

Datasheet response measurements are horizontal plane. Vertical plane is catered only in polar graphs. In which 1238AC shows much greater and wider attenuation below 1 kHz to all angles compared to its 1238x -siblings and 1237A. Especially below 500 Hz it´s superior. That´s just the very frequency domain where floor and ceiling bounces make nasty dips.

1238AC´s graphs are just fine. That little dim @ 3kHz in 1238AC´s horizontal angle -responses is only cosmetical. It doesn´t appear in listening axis at all, and power response/radiation deviation -wise room absortion (=acoustical treatments) bite on it already very well. Wavelenght of 3 kHz is barely over 10 cm i.e. is easily attenuated away. I would say it´s nothing compared to benefits 1238AC could give in vertical direction below 1 kHz in return.
By the way, if put your LCR behind that non-woven AT-screen as you plan, you end up getting much worse than that comb filtering effect to all angles, across whole band...

By putting 1238A woofer up, you end up getting your vertical null-bounces just in different frequencies. They can´t be avoided completely, but dual woofer vertical configuration of 1238AC (or even better, 1234AC in vertical...) could really help to minimize them.   

gl3678890, modified 9 Months ago.

RE: Need some help on my home theater equipments

Padawan Posts: 46 Join Date: 9/11/18 Recent Posts
gunther70a:
gl3678890:

Thanks for advice.

Well perf vs woven is long debated, generally woven would have a greater light loss so I wont consider(cause using big screen + low cost projector).
1238AC vertical is inspiring. Very slim compare to 1238A, however I noticed the on axial frequency response is not even, especailly a 3k Hz dip, compare to 1238A & DF & 1237A, 1238AC is inferior in on-axial frequency response.

If to avoid first reflection of  floor, I guess inverse 1238A to put the woofer on top is also a way to go.
 

Cheers,

L

Datasheet response measurements are horizontal plane. Vertical plane is catered only in polar graphs. In which 1238AC shows much greater and wider attenuation below 1 kHz to all angles compared to its 1238x -siblings and 1237A. Especially below 500 Hz it´s superior. That´s just the very frequency domain where floor and ceiling bounces make nasty dips.

1238AC´s graphs are just fine. That little dim @ 3kHz in 1238AC´s horizontal angle -responses is only cosmetical. It doesn´t appear in listening axis at all, and power response/radiation deviation -wise room absortion (=acoustical treatments) bite on it already very well. Wavelenght of 3 kHz is barely over 10 cm i.e. is easily attenuated away. I would say it´s nothing compared to benefits 1238AC could give in vertical direction below 1 kHz in return.
By the way, if put your LCR behind that non-woven AT-screen as you plan, you end up getting much worse than that comb filtering effect to all angles, across whole band...

By putting 1238A woofer up, you end up getting your vertical null-bounces just in different frequencies. They can´t be avoided completely, but dual woofer vertical configuration of 1238AC (or even better, 1234AC in vertical...) could really help to minimize them.   

Well I don't have an expierence with 1238AC so cant judge. Theoretically a bumpy off axial response would affect the sound through the room, that's why omni speakers like MBL are so interesting(I like it).